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Thread: Söchting Oxydator for increased ORP group buy intrest?

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    Söchting Oxydator for increased ORP group buy intrest?

    I am looking to get one of those oxydators that Albert Thiel recommends. The short of it is it increases the ORP through slow chemical reaction of hydrogen peroxide. Jim has one in the tank he brought to coral con. Which others seemed interested in.

    Will let jim talk to his experience.

    As they have no current USA distribution point was looking to order from the UK. Given difficulty and high cost if shipping.

    Thought others might want to pool together to combine shipping and perhaps get a volume break. If there is interest please post here.
    ><((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ><(((((º>
    I keep water, last checked about 600 gallons worth.
    Problem is animals keep using it as there water closet.
    Worst of all the littlest ones keep using up all the supplies.

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    Basic behind the oxydators And claims by the manufacture.


    It makes clever use of Hydrogen peroxide's (H2O2) chemistry. This molecule consists of an oxygen atom loosely attached to a water molecule, like a ball in a gutter. One "shake", (or impulse of energy), will set it rolling and this gives it special energetic properties. The "shake" is caused by a catalyst in the peroxide reservoir. Two peroxide molecules are needed to produce the water and pure oxygen.

    The chemical equation is:

    2 H2O2 è ( catalyst ) è 2 H2O2 + O2

    The Oxydator causes this reaction in two separate stages:

    Stage 1 - A small catalyst rod breaks down some of the peroxide inside a plexiglass container (see diagram), producing the exact amount of oxygen needed. A diving bell acts as a valve, while an air cushion at the bottom of the container prevents water from penetrating the unit.

    Stage 2 - The specially developed ceramic of the Oxydator releases the pure oxygen your fish need. Only our unique ceramic can do this - ordinary ceramic has no effect at all. This two-stage process constantly regulates the activated oxygen, releasing the right amount for your tank and ensuring the concentration is never too high for your fish.
    ><((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ><(((((º>
    I keep water, last checked about 600 gallons worth.
    Problem is animals keep using it as there water closet.
    Worst of all the littlest ones keep using up all the supplies.

  3. #3
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    The benefits of adding hydrogen peroxide to water have long been known. It keeps fish in good condition, prevents acute oxygen starvation, stops fungus from growing and halts the build-up of decaying matter which makes the water murky. But regulating the peroxide concentration has always been a problem until now! The Oxydator is a unique new design with a constant, controlled release, giving the exact amount needed at any time. It radically improves the water quality, giving all the benefits mentioned above. The key is a specially developed ceramic which breaks peroxide down completely into water and oxygen. But the Oxydator does not only provide a supply of fresh oxygen. Unlike ordinary aerators, it will not expel CO2, an important plant nutrient, from the tank. It also releases activated oxygen which detoxifies poisons, rendering them completely harmless. With an Oxydator you can keep many more fish in your tank and you do not have to change the water so often. The oxygen supply adjusts to the temperature of a populated pond or tank. An 8 °C increase doubles the amount produced. Approximately 20,000 liter of water will be 100% oxygen-saturated (156 g of oxygen) by 1 liter of 30% peroxide solution at 25 °C. The table below shows the quantities and consumption rates at 25 °C. A simple adjustment gives the figures at other temperatures. An average number of fish and plants is assumed for each volume. As a highly populated tank needs more oxygen, the next highest combination may be more appropriate. The Oxydator also provides economical, purifying activated oxygen for plant-free, highly populated aquaria where aerators satisfy the large oxygen demands.
    ><((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ><(((((º>
    I keep water, last checked about 600 gallons worth.
    Problem is animals keep using it as there water closet.
    Worst of all the littlest ones keep using up all the supplies.

  4. #4
    ORCA Forum Member philip_r5's Avatar
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    Im interested in getting one. I looked online and couldn't find a vendor.
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    I might jump in as well, I need the final price after shipping.
    Good Luck,
    Cesar Campo
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    ORCA Forum Member Michael's Avatar
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    Some info on ORP you may want to consider. I do not know much about it, but saw this post the other day that talks about all of the other parameters in the tank as well, so thought I would share.

    From http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/reef...es-farley.html
    ORP

    I do not recommend that aquarists try to "control" ORP.

    The oxidation reduction potential (ORP) of a marine aquarium is a measure of its water's relative oxidizing power. ORP has often been recommended to aquarists as an important water parameter, and some companies sell products (equipment and chemicals) designed to control ORP. Many who recommended ORP control have convinced aquarists that it is a measure of the aquarium water's relative "purity," despite this never having been demonstrated

    ORP, at its heart, is very, very complicated. It is perhaps the single most complicated chemical feature of marine aquaria that aquarists will typically encounter. ORP involves many chemical details that are simply unknown, either for seawater or for aquaria. It involves processes that are not at equilibrium, and so are difficult to understand and predict. Even more daunting is the fact that the chemicals that control ORP in one aquarium might not even be the same chemicals that control ORP in another aquarium, or in natural seawater. In many seawater situations, the measured ORP value may be actually measuring the relative concentration of the different redox forms of various metals, such as iron and manganese.

    ORP is, however, an interesting measure of the properties of water in a marine aquarium. It has uses for monitoring certain events in aquaria that impact ORP but may be otherwise hard to detect. These events could include immediate deaths of organisms, as well as long term increases in the levels of organic materials. Aquarists who monitor ORP, and who do other things that seem appropriate for maintaining an aquarium in response to the ORP value (such as increasing aeration, skimming, use of carbon, etc.) may find monitoring ORP to be a useful way to see progress.

    ORP measurements are very susceptible to errors, however. Aquarists are strongly cautioned to not overemphasize absolute ORP readings, especially if they have not recently calibrated their ORP probe. Rather, ORP measurements are most useful when looking at changes in measured ORP over time.

    Some aquarists use oxidizers (such a permanganate) to raise ORP, although this practice is far less common now than in the early days of reef keeping. These additions may benefit some aquaria, and may be beneficial in ways that aren't demonstrated by changes in ORP alone (for example, reducing the yellowness of the water). I've never added such materials directly to my aquarium, although I have used ozone in the past. In the absence of convincing data otherwise, such additions seem to me to be potentially riskier than is justified by their demonstrated and hypothesized benefits (except for properly used ozone).

    ORP is important if you choose to use ozone as an indicator that you are not using too much and thereby putting your creatures at risk. In my opinion, however, the absolute ORP value is not even a good indicator that you are using an appropriate amount of ozone. For that purpose, the change in ORP from before to after the ozone use may be more appropriate.

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    Summary=
    The units main purpose is to provide a safe regulated way to dose hydrogen peroxide into the water column. Its designed in such a way you can use the % and the catalyst size/ quantity to match it to many sizes of tanks and thus the tanks individuals tendency to consume Oxygen day to day.
    You just modify the % or the size of the catalyst as you go to get a nice rate. I love it and give Albert Thiel author of "Nano Reef Aquariums" and several other books, and was a guest speaker for ORCA last year at one of the meetings, 100% of the credit here as i first read about it in his book last year.

    I'm all for them. Nothing at all to complain about thus far, except impossible to get in the USA.

    I love reef to reef michael, last night I implemented my constant water changes system which they go into in depth. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/

    Just to add to the ORP related post. This particular unit is not meant to control ORP in any way. its meant to release free oxygen very slowly and consistently into the water till its saturated and then naturally expels on the surface, Which does effect ORP in the tank, VS the typical way, by the water trying to absorb oxygen from the atmosphere till its balanced.

    My observations after using them in all the tanks i have for about 5 months now is-
    easy to maintain "fill it about once a month"
    they use no electric, "they have been around for 30 yrs or so" just not popular in the USA.
    The water column is clearer.
    The first 30 minutes after you fill it and put in aquarium, some polyps seem to react to the abrupt change in oxygen and close. mostly zoos n pallys. like if you dose Hydrogen peroxide. the usual way by injecting it directly into the water.
    probably due to when it is set on the bottom of the tank, its compressed under the water column weight and pre maturely releases a bit of H2O2 till it balances and begins releasing at the normal balanced rate.

    Several sizes to choose from. low cost, i think the most expensive one is like 50 bucks ish. "not the pond size one BTW"

    You do have to find Food grade H2O2 which can be ordered online in several strengths. And is something that in much debate, because you can't ship it in the mail legally over like 6% sort of like shipping alcohol. 21yrs +need to be present to sign for it.. but it last for ever. i think i have used half a cup full out of the gallon jug i bought of 30% food grade from a reputable place.

    I made a home made one for chip and the thing tipped over n leaked out and didn't hurt anything which was a water bottle full of 3% into 120 gallons of water all at once. id say its pretty safe don't try that with vodka!!!

    Many reefers use it to dip corals and kill GHA and other things. Many people gargle with it for fresh breath and drink it in small amounts to increase free oxygen in the body if you look into it enough.

    I found mine runs best on 3% and minimal catalyst's, based on if bubbles are being released to the surface then its producing more oxygen than the water can absorb.

    If does not seem to effect PH at all, you would think that was the case, since the water has more oxygen thus there is less room for CO2 but that is not the case. I wanted to help drive out the C02 i get from my tight sealed up house which holds my Ph way way down in the 7.85-8.0 range with the C02 out of the house I'm over 8.2 "windows open for a day"
    Four individual systems Right now.
    30gal red sea 130d lps/softies/anemone tank, kalk ato, reef bright led strip.
    40 softies set up.
    550 total gallon marineland 300 DD main system 18 months old now and stabilized. T5 VHO lights/ BLUE led strip, Fully custom built LIFE REEF sump and FUGE, AWESOME 60" tall skimmer, and 1000+ gallon rated custom Ca reactor, 3 50 gallon attached SPS frag systems lite with a combination of HM and LED and T5 fixtures.
    A 200 gallon MARS quarintine with UV system/ medication for new arrivals.

    Still lots to learn about the hobby but I have amassed a great collection of real beauties. I have broken past the stage of keeping things alive and now there actually growing out. Which is a big hurdle for many beginners I must admit. Good information and advise is hard to get sometimes and the club has done wonders with respect to quality advise and help in the hobby.

    THANKS Orlando Reef Educators Organization!!!!

  8. #8
    ORCA Forum Member Michael's Avatar
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    Thanks for the information. Like I said I do not know anything about it, just saw ORP so thought I'd share a link I would like to get a probe for it on my Apex however just for another graph to stare at. Wish they were a bit cheaper =\

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    i actually have the ORP probe on my largest system and it seems to move like it did before the H202 addition, maybe generally a higher number over all. but i believe when i add the refilled unit, it drops to a lower number initially then comes back up about 2 hrs later. Same as when i feed the system.

    I dont concern my self with it much its there i watch it. look for abnormal trends more than anything.
    Four individual systems Right now.
    30gal red sea 130d lps/softies/anemone tank, kalk ato, reef bright led strip.
    40 softies set up.
    550 total gallon marineland 300 DD main system 18 months old now and stabilized. T5 VHO lights/ BLUE led strip, Fully custom built LIFE REEF sump and FUGE, AWESOME 60" tall skimmer, and 1000+ gallon rated custom Ca reactor, 3 50 gallon attached SPS frag systems lite with a combination of HM and LED and T5 fixtures.
    A 200 gallon MARS quarintine with UV system/ medication for new arrivals.

    Still lots to learn about the hobby but I have amassed a great collection of real beauties. I have broken past the stage of keeping things alive and now there actually growing out. Which is a big hurdle for many beginners I must admit. Good information and advise is hard to get sometimes and the club has done wonders with respect to quality advise and help in the hobby.

    THANKS Orlando Reef Educators Organization!!!!

  10. #10
    ORCA Forum Member Michael's Avatar
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    And 2 minutes later I bought BRS lab grade one lol. So I guess I WILL have a new graph to look at But yeah as far as I understand values are not important the changes is what you can pay attention to.

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    ORCA Forum Member SaltWater's Avatar
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    Jim you shouldn't mess with orp in your 2 gallon system. If the orp goes above 600 it will kill all your bacteria! at least that's what I heard.



    P.S. On a serious note I would like to know everyone's orp levels that have an apex
    Last edited by SaltWater; 10-31-2014 at 08:44 AM.

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    I would be interested in two one for a 75 gallon and one for my 34 gallon.
    Let me know ho much and when.

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    I would be interested in two one for my 75 gallon and one for my 34 gallon.
    Let me know how much and when.

  14. #14
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    I have emailed seahorsebreeders..co.uk to see what we can work out. Will up date details when I get them.
    I imagine the savings will largely be in bulk shipping.
    ><((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ><(((((º>
    I keep water, last checked about 600 gallons worth.
    Problem is animals keep using it as there water closet.
    Worst of all the littlest ones keep using up all the supplies.

  15. #15
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    Thanks for your detailed experience jim!
    ><((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ><(((((º>
    I keep water, last checked about 600 gallons worth.
    Problem is animals keep using it as there water closet.
    Worst of all the littlest ones keep using up all the supplies.

  16. #16
    ORCA Forum Member SaltWater's Avatar
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    ORL sells the large one for $60 the small one for $40 and 1 quart of the 6% for $10

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    Söchting Oxydator for increased ORP group buy

    Who / where is ORL

    Quote Originally Posted by SaltWater View Post
    ORL sells the large one for $60 the small one for $40 and 1 quart of the 6% for $10
    ><((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ><(((((º>
    I keep water, last checked about 600 gallons worth.
    Problem is animals keep using it as there water closet.
    Worst of all the littlest ones keep using up all the supplies.

  18. #18
    ORCA Forum Member Michael's Avatar
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    Got my ORP probe today. Don't really have anything to calibrate it with, thought that 400mV pinpoint solution was it, but Apex wants something else to calibrate with. It does seem to read about 380 in that 400 solution so I guess it is close enough. So far (probe been in for few minutes lol) I see a reading of 187 (which may be 207 if it's linear based on the delta with pinpoint test solution), no idea what that means heh. Will watch the pretty graphs over the new few days see what happens

  19. #19
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    Related to my ORP in my system.. i have not calibrated it but i do clean it bi monthly.
    When you clean it, it takes as much as a few days to settle down and is not always the same reading as before the cleaning but the "swing" stays the same.
    If i remember right i cleaned it once and the average went up about 40PTS. then next time i cleaned it, it went back down about 30 PTS after it settled which i think is common. your targeting the swing not the actual value. *large swing is bad.
    My ORP graph runs from 312-361 over the last three months. and the lower numbers correspond to when i feed the system or put my hands in the tank to service filters, or to move a frag or something then It drops rapidly then recovers over the next hour ish

    Pick up is in the high flow area of the sump and location can vary the reeding.. your looking for consistency. If a fish died id expect a large drop 30-50 points and for it to stay there for several hours or more which, if i was watching, would trigger the hands in the tank reaction. Further dropping ORP and inducing more trouble. lol

    i like having it there when i fill the H202 i have to put my hands in the tank which probably equates to most of the ORP drop.

    The oxydator should level out the roller coaster effect in orp somewhat.
    But really, the key is keeping free oxygen up high as possible for the inhabitants i think.
    Four individual systems Right now.
    30gal red sea 130d lps/softies/anemone tank, kalk ato, reef bright led strip.
    40 softies set up.
    550 total gallon marineland 300 DD main system 18 months old now and stabilized. T5 VHO lights/ BLUE led strip, Fully custom built LIFE REEF sump and FUGE, AWESOME 60" tall skimmer, and 1000+ gallon rated custom Ca reactor, 3 50 gallon attached SPS frag systems lite with a combination of HM and LED and T5 fixtures.
    A 200 gallon MARS quarintine with UV system/ medication for new arrivals.

    Still lots to learn about the hobby but I have amassed a great collection of real beauties. I have broken past the stage of keeping things alive and now there actually growing out. Which is a big hurdle for many beginners I must admit. Good information and advise is hard to get sometimes and the club has done wonders with respect to quality advise and help in the hobby.

    THANKS Orlando Reef Educators Organization!!!!

  20. #20
    ORCA Forum Member philip_r5's Avatar
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    Ya, I would also say that my Orp usually runs in the 300s , and goes lower when higher organic waste is in the water column. This is just something to keep an eye on and not take as an exact measure of fact finding.
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